A short while ago I published several snippets on the ill fated iPod Service Module Error. Initially my own stumblings at trying to overcome the problem, then what I thought was the definitive solution which was posted in a reply from reader CBGRI.
I've now had this comment from Jackie:-
CBGRI...thank you!! You have saved me. I have looked everywhere, tried registry changes, reinstalling itunes 10000 times, uninstalling norton, etc etc and nothing worked but this has fixed the problem with ease.
This is the only place online that i've found the answer. Honestly, i am so grateful, thanks! x
So, thanks again to CBGRI, you can find his (or her) solution down this blog.
Wednesday, October 01, 2008
Thursday, September 11, 2008
iTunes 8 - My Glitches
Downloaded the new version of iTunes, mainly to see what this genius is, but also tried a couple of tasks. I'm screaming.
First, who decided to take away the Consolidate Library command? I must use that two or three times a day. Yes I can use a standard Finder or Windows function to copy a file but this was better. It saved me time because it checks fist to see if I have enough disc space; it saved a lot of bother because I was confident the new directory would indeed contain all the album tracks I had copied across. New software should be a step forward, not back.
Worse was to come.
I burn a lot of DVDs. 100 plus a week. I use standard iTunes commands to burn music. Under iTunes 8 I got an error message which kept asking me to insert blank media. I have to say this has happened before and I had to do a fair bit of head scratching to recall the fix.
While the mental cogs were spinning I tested the drive, I swapped various DVDs, pretty sure they were all blank, even went out and bought a stack of blank Sony DVDs just so I could be absolutely sure each disc was factory fresh. Every time, it kept telling me that it thought the disc I'd inserted was not blank. Please insert blank media, please insert blank media. Some sort of screwed up mantra.
Tried it on three machines, same every time. Then I remembered what had happened before and how I'd got round it. Due to the way I rip clients CDs (across six machines) I have a selection of USB connected drives and one clients collection ends up spread across one or more drives. When the ripping is done I just unplug the drive from its computer then plug it into a single machine with which I compile the master CD music library.
For some reason a while back iTunes took exception to music stored on external drives when burning DVDs. The fix? Just move all the music off the hard drives onto a single internal hard drive. And that's where I once more cursed the loss of Consolidate Library, but at least I've said goodbye (for a while) to "Please insert blank media ....."
First, who decided to take away the Consolidate Library command? I must use that two or three times a day. Yes I can use a standard Finder or Windows function to copy a file but this was better. It saved me time because it checks fist to see if I have enough disc space; it saved a lot of bother because I was confident the new directory would indeed contain all the album tracks I had copied across. New software should be a step forward, not back.
Worse was to come.
I burn a lot of DVDs. 100 plus a week. I use standard iTunes commands to burn music. Under iTunes 8 I got an error message which kept asking me to insert blank media. I have to say this has happened before and I had to do a fair bit of head scratching to recall the fix.
While the mental cogs were spinning I tested the drive, I swapped various DVDs, pretty sure they were all blank, even went out and bought a stack of blank Sony DVDs just so I could be absolutely sure each disc was factory fresh. Every time, it kept telling me that it thought the disc I'd inserted was not blank. Please insert blank media, please insert blank media. Some sort of screwed up mantra.
Tried it on three machines, same every time. Then I remembered what had happened before and how I'd got round it. Due to the way I rip clients CDs (across six machines) I have a selection of USB connected drives and one clients collection ends up spread across one or more drives. When the ripping is done I just unplug the drive from its computer then plug it into a single machine with which I compile the master CD music library.
For some reason a while back iTunes took exception to music stored on external drives when burning DVDs. The fix? Just move all the music off the hard drives onto a single internal hard drive. And that's where I once more cursed the loss of Consolidate Library, but at least I've said goodbye (for a while) to "Please insert blank media ....."
Friday, June 27, 2008
iPod Service Module Close Error - Solved?
In an earlier post I mentioned how several www.podserve.co.uk clients had run up against this problem. Despite helpful suggestions we were unable to find a solution. The best I could offer was a workround using a product such as Xplay (now up to version 3 by the way).
Well, fingers crossed, iPod and iTunes users could have a solution thanks to an authorative reply which I think deserves prominence. Here it is in full:-
We had the exact same problem for months and found that it was an empty device driver. So check that before you read on ... Right click on your Computer, go to manage, then highlight Device Manager. If there is nothing listed, try the following options. The first possibilities are offered by MS but did not work in my circumstance as we had not recently updated to MS SP 3.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311504
and
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953791/en-us
Then I found an old posting printed below from JAZZ that was originally from Annoyances.com, AND IT WORKED! You may want to uninstall ALL iTunes related software, then reinstall.
Good Luck
CBGRI
From : http://www.softwaretipsandtricks.com/forum/windows-xp/15653-device-manager-blank.html
re: Empty Device Manager
"The issue is security permissions in the registry. I cannot tell how they are lost
but I can tell you how to fix it short of having to re-install Windows!
You must use regedt32.exe in Windows 2000/XP (as I have not seen this problem posted
for any other operating system). Be very carefull making changes in the regisrty!
You must be logged on as a local administrator to perform this task:
1. Go to "Start", "Run", and enter "regedt32"
2. Maximize the "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE" window.
3. Scroll down to "SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum"
4. With "Enum" selected click the "Security", "Permissions" menu.
Note: At this point you will probably notice there are no permissions on this key.
5. Click "Add".
6. Add the group "Everyone" and the user "SYSTEM".
7. Select "Everyone" and check "Read" ONLY!
8. Select "SYSTEM" and check "Full Control".
9. Click the "Advanced" button at the bottom of the window.
10. On the Advanced window check "Reset permissions on all child objects..."
11. Click "OK"
12. On the warning window click "Yes"
13. Close REGEDT32
You should now be able to see everything in Device Manager, Network Places Properties,
and Printers."
My thanks to CGBRI, wish I knew more about you so I could credit you properly.
Well, fingers crossed, iPod and iTunes users could have a solution thanks to an authorative reply which I think deserves prominence. Here it is in full:-
We had the exact same problem for months and found that it was an empty device driver. So check that before you read on ... Right click on your Computer, go to manage, then highlight Device Manager. If there is nothing listed, try the following options. The first possibilities are offered by MS but did not work in my circumstance as we had not recently updated to MS SP 3.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311504
and
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953791/en-us
Then I found an old posting printed below from JAZZ that was originally from Annoyances.com, AND IT WORKED! You may want to uninstall ALL iTunes related software, then reinstall.
Good Luck
CBGRI
From : http://www.softwaretipsandtricks.com/forum/windows-xp/15653-device-manager-blank.html
re: Empty Device Manager
"The issue is security permissions in the registry. I cannot tell how they are lost
but I can tell you how to fix it short of having to re-install Windows!
You must use regedt32.exe in Windows 2000/XP (as I have not seen this problem posted
for any other operating system). Be very carefull making changes in the regisrty!
You must be logged on as a local administrator to perform this task:
1. Go to "Start", "Run", and enter "regedt32"
2. Maximize the "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE" window.
3. Scroll down to "SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum"
4. With "Enum" selected click the "Security", "Permissions" menu.
Note: At this point you will probably notice there are no permissions on this key.
5. Click "Add".
6. Add the group "Everyone" and the user "SYSTEM".
7. Select "Everyone" and check "Read" ONLY!
8. Select "SYSTEM" and check "Full Control".
9. Click the "Advanced" button at the bottom of the window.
10. On the Advanced window check "Reset permissions on all child objects..."
11. Click "OK"
12. On the warning window click "Yes"
13. Close REGEDT32
You should now be able to see everything in Device Manager, Network Places Properties,
and Printers."
My thanks to CGBRI, wish I knew more about you so I could credit you properly.
Tuesday, May 06, 2008
Compilations Pestilence in iTunes
For most of us how our music files are organised is of little interest, iTunes takes care of it. We just see the collated view of our music library. But for some users iTunes causes problems. First, iTunes creates an awful lot of folders; second, you get one massive folder called 'Compilations'.
Compilations will contain a large number of albums lobbed there without any rhyme or reason by the random hand of fate that is the CDDB database. Also, you'll get a main folder per artist, within which you'll find all the tracks attributed to that person. This can be complex when you have a large number of artists with just one track. If, for example, the main artist is a rap star the chances are the rest of the tracks on the album will co-credit another artist using the term 'featuring' or 'feat.' or even 'ft'. Everytime two names are joined together you get yet another artist folder.
How can you overcome this?
First the curse of featuring. No quick way round this but you just have to edit out everything that appears after the main artists name. If you've ticked the box 'Keep iTunes library organized' in Advanced / Preferences then those stray tracks will be moved back to where they belong - in the main artist's folder.
Second let's tackle compilations. You need to isolate everything in the compilations folder. This is how you do it - go to Prefernces / General and tick the box 'Group compilations when browsing'. Then when you look at your library, in the Artist column, you'll see an entry for Compilations. Click on this and you'll see all the tracks which have been marked as part of a compilation.
Select all these tracks by highlighting one of them then hitting Control + A. Right click, and Get info. The box that pops up has a box in the bottom left corner marked Compilation. Just switch the setting from Yes to No, and as if by magic iTunes will slot all thos tracks out of the amorphous Compialtions folder into the artist folder.
Compilations will contain a large number of albums lobbed there without any rhyme or reason by the random hand of fate that is the CDDB database. Also, you'll get a main folder per artist, within which you'll find all the tracks attributed to that person. This can be complex when you have a large number of artists with just one track. If, for example, the main artist is a rap star the chances are the rest of the tracks on the album will co-credit another artist using the term 'featuring' or 'feat.' or even 'ft'. Everytime two names are joined together you get yet another artist folder.
How can you overcome this?
First the curse of featuring. No quick way round this but you just have to edit out everything that appears after the main artists name. If you've ticked the box 'Keep iTunes library organized' in Advanced / Preferences then those stray tracks will be moved back to where they belong - in the main artist's folder.
Second let's tackle compilations. You need to isolate everything in the compilations folder. This is how you do it - go to Prefernces / General and tick the box 'Group compilations when browsing'. Then when you look at your library, in the Artist column, you'll see an entry for Compilations. Click on this and you'll see all the tracks which have been marked as part of a compilation.
Select all these tracks by highlighting one of them then hitting Control + A. Right click, and Get info. The box that pops up has a box in the bottom left corner marked Compilation. Just switch the setting from Yes to No, and as if by magic iTunes will slot all thos tracks out of the amorphous Compialtions folder into the artist folder.
Sunday, March 09, 2008
iPod Service Module Close Error
I posted a while ago on the problem a client had experienced with iPod Service Module needing to Close, what now seems to be a common problem for iPod and iTunes users. If you read that you might have thought I'd found a cure.
Unfortunately I think I was wrong. Judging from the many people who have contacted me over this the full range of corrective measures (install, uninstall, close firewall & virus scanners) all have no effect. My thinking now is that this is a problem arising from iTunes (under Windows) and essentially there's nothing any of us can do. I don't think anything you did brought it on you, its just a random glitch.
If you get hit by the iPod Service module needs to close message I don't think you can fix this, its out of your control. However I have suggested to some people that until an iTunes fix comes along you can look at using XPlay 2 from Media Four (www.mediafour.com). This is a great piece of software and should allow you to move tunes on and off your iPod until a proper fix is found.
Unfortunately I think I was wrong. Judging from the many people who have contacted me over this the full range of corrective measures (install, uninstall, close firewall & virus scanners) all have no effect. My thinking now is that this is a problem arising from iTunes (under Windows) and essentially there's nothing any of us can do. I don't think anything you did brought it on you, its just a random glitch.
If you get hit by the iPod Service module needs to close message I don't think you can fix this, its out of your control. However I have suggested to some people that until an iTunes fix comes along you can look at using XPlay 2 from Media Four (www.mediafour.com). This is a great piece of software and should allow you to move tunes on and off your iPod until a proper fix is found.
Friday, January 11, 2008
iPod Service Module Error
Phone call asking for advice, someone's daughter away at University is having a problem with an iPod nano that can't be synched. I'm told the error message relates to iPod Service Module.
iPod Service Module? Exactly that? Are you sure? Yes, I'm told, that's exactly it. And what's the solution? Apparently sensible daughter has reinstalled iTunes, tried endlessly but iTunes will not recognise the iPod and it won't synch. Stressed parent demands an answer. Why is iTunes such rubbish?
So I try to point out - politely - that iTunes is very far from rubbish. It's a great, solid, reliable program which must by now be one of the most widely used pieces of code in the world. Actually on Windows its two programs, one iTunes itself the other a small program that runs all the time, watching and waiting for an iPod to be connected. When it detects an iPod, iPod Classic, iPod shuffle or iPod Nano it fires up its big brother and hey presto there's iTunes. If you do control/alt/delete Task Manager will show you its running processes and there you'll see it - except its called iPodService.exe. Take careful note, no space.
So I ask again, because I'd expect a genuine error message to faithfully replicate the program name - "iPodService.exe" - rather than the probably other program generated "iPod Service Error". Yes, I'm assured, the message is just as I've been told, the space is there. So being hundreds of miles from the offending PC I have to speculate and come up with an answer.
Since iPod Service Module or iPodService.exe monitors the USB ports there could be a problem there. Maybe there are too many devices attached and there isn't enough power; maybe the port has been damaged. Maybe there's a fault in the white cable causing an electrical fault. All quickly dismissed by parent (by now becoming tetchy).
What else monitors USB ports? I'd also take a look at those fierce guardians of our safety - the firewall and virus software. Daughter runs Norton. I laugh - over the years removing Norton from PCs that are playing up has been a steady source of income. So I point the finger of blame in that direction. Parent suddenly seems happy, promises to ring daughter with a shopping list of actions to tackle the issue. He promises to ring me back and let me know what works. Thus far I've heard nothing so assume it's been fixed.
Further suggestion - isolate the fault. In this case its in the iPod, the cable or the PC. Try to connect iPod to another computer, if its recognised there the problem is with your computer. Try another cable. Try another iPod with the computer, if that works you know the issue is with your iPod.
iPod Service Module? Exactly that? Are you sure? Yes, I'm told, that's exactly it. And what's the solution? Apparently sensible daughter has reinstalled iTunes, tried endlessly but iTunes will not recognise the iPod and it won't synch. Stressed parent demands an answer. Why is iTunes such rubbish?
So I try to point out - politely - that iTunes is very far from rubbish. It's a great, solid, reliable program which must by now be one of the most widely used pieces of code in the world. Actually on Windows its two programs, one iTunes itself the other a small program that runs all the time, watching and waiting for an iPod to be connected. When it detects an iPod, iPod Classic, iPod shuffle or iPod Nano it fires up its big brother and hey presto there's iTunes. If you do control/alt/delete Task Manager will show you its running processes and there you'll see it - except its called iPodService.exe. Take careful note, no space.
So I ask again, because I'd expect a genuine error message to faithfully replicate the program name - "iPodService.exe" - rather than the probably other program generated "iPod Service Error". Yes, I'm assured, the message is just as I've been told, the space is there. So being hundreds of miles from the offending PC I have to speculate and come up with an answer.
Since iPod Service Module or iPodService.exe monitors the USB ports there could be a problem there. Maybe there are too many devices attached and there isn't enough power; maybe the port has been damaged. Maybe there's a fault in the white cable causing an electrical fault. All quickly dismissed by parent (by now becoming tetchy).
What else monitors USB ports? I'd also take a look at those fierce guardians of our safety - the firewall and virus software. Daughter runs Norton. I laugh - over the years removing Norton from PCs that are playing up has been a steady source of income. So I point the finger of blame in that direction. Parent suddenly seems happy, promises to ring daughter with a shopping list of actions to tackle the issue. He promises to ring me back and let me know what works. Thus far I've heard nothing so assume it's been fixed.
Further suggestion - isolate the fault. In this case its in the iPod, the cable or the PC. Try to connect iPod to another computer, if its recognised there the problem is with your computer. Try another cable. Try another iPod with the computer, if that works you know the issue is with your iPod.
Thursday, January 10, 2008
iPhone , Gmail and IMAP
If you have an iPhone and a Google Gmail account you'll want to access it via IMAP. Why? Because then you get your messages automatically, just like the BlackBerry crowd.
Google have produced a helpful video tutorial, you can see it here.
Google have produced a helpful video tutorial, you can see it here.
Wednesday, January 09, 2008
iPhone Insurance
Another question from an iPhone using client - should I take out insurance?
Insurance being something of a closed book to me I asked what he was insuring against. He said he was worried that he'd lose his phone, have to buy a new one AND pay the monthly fee on the unit he lost.
I did some digging and was pleased to be able to correct one misconception. According to O2 you only need replace the handset. You don't have to continue paying your 'old' contract and a 'new' one. This being the case the extent of your loss is £269.
That being the level of risk I started looking for a policy and wasn't much surprised to find all the policies came in at about the same cost - £8 per month. For a private consumer that's going to mean he buys himself a new handset in about 34 months, if as a business user he can claim back the VAT, that would be 29 months. At first thought a rather expensive policy.
I asked myself how much the iPhone Mk5 would be in 18 months time? A lot less than today's price I'm sure. And how many times have you lost a phone anyway - me, never. I also rang my own insurance company who suggested if the phone was mine it should go on my contents policy.
So I rang my client back and explained the situation. What a hard life insurance salespeople must lead, this potential buyer quickly decided this was one policy he could live without.
Insurance being something of a closed book to me I asked what he was insuring against. He said he was worried that he'd lose his phone, have to buy a new one AND pay the monthly fee on the unit he lost.
I did some digging and was pleased to be able to correct one misconception. According to O2 you only need replace the handset. You don't have to continue paying your 'old' contract and a 'new' one. This being the case the extent of your loss is £269.
That being the level of risk I started looking for a policy and wasn't much surprised to find all the policies came in at about the same cost - £8 per month. For a private consumer that's going to mean he buys himself a new handset in about 34 months, if as a business user he can claim back the VAT, that would be 29 months. At first thought a rather expensive policy.
I asked myself how much the iPhone Mk5 would be in 18 months time? A lot less than today's price I'm sure. And how many times have you lost a phone anyway - me, never. I also rang my own insurance company who suggested if the phone was mine it should go on my contents policy.
So I rang my client back and explained the situation. What a hard life insurance salespeople must lead, this potential buyer quickly decided this was one policy he could live without.
Thursday, December 20, 2007
iPhone Battery Problem
Another call for help on an iPhone (they're coming thick and fast these days). Battery won't charge.
Did some digging prior to site visit (Kensington, very plush) and found this could be due to a software glitch. Sure enough the iPhone didn't show it was charging but found evidently it was. Downloaded the latest iPhone software which makes things better and in some cases is a cure.
With the new software installed I noticed the opening screen showed a flat battery but Safari showed a full charge. Other applications seemed to have a different view of the state of the battery. The phone was hammered over internet connections and YouTube downloads and the battery held good, and recharged at the end of the session.
Another complaint from the client was exceptionally slow internet access. Found the device was latching onto a neighbours wi-fi connection, with a poor signal and slow transfer. Swapped to another open wi-fi and speed improved significantly.
Did some digging prior to site visit (Kensington, very plush) and found this could be due to a software glitch. Sure enough the iPhone didn't show it was charging but found evidently it was. Downloaded the latest iPhone software which makes things better and in some cases is a cure.
With the new software installed I noticed the opening screen showed a flat battery but Safari showed a full charge. Other applications seemed to have a different view of the state of the battery. The phone was hammered over internet connections and YouTube downloads and the battery held good, and recharged at the end of the session.
Another complaint from the client was exceptionally slow internet access. Found the device was latching onto a neighbours wi-fi connection, with a poor signal and slow transfer. Swapped to another open wi-fi and speed improved significantly.
Saturday, December 15, 2007
iPhone and Email
If you're struggling with getting email operational on your iPhone I sympathise. Over the last week I've been trying to configure an iPhone for a client and it hasn't been easy. So. let me tell you a story. Once upon a time there was client.
Client is highly mobile, both by profession but also for the short term by home. Having just moved out of his old flat he's living temporarily in another in central London prior to relocating to a new home. So, no permanent internet connection and the iPhone seemed ideal. First problem - you can't register an iPhone unless you can connect via broadband but I'll skip that one.
So there I am, in flat, trying to connect to client's BT internet account. Several hours later, no connection. Decided to give up on that. Persuaded client that he could live with another email address and so went to Yahoo to get an identity he could use from the phone. Yahoo is one of the providers pre-configured into the iPhone, so what could go wrong? All you have to do is enter three variables, and wait while the setup is validated. Error message. Try again (and again and again) thinking I must have typed in the password wrong but everytime it refused to validate the account. Some hours after the start of a simple job (with client naturally losing confidence in me) we've achieved nothing.
Will this thing handle mail at all? I tried my own email account (Gmail), another pre-configured option on the iPhone - and had access to my mail in seconds. Went to Yahoo.com via Safari and could see client's account, so I was sure the account name, password etc were accurate. Decided to ditch Yahoo and get a Gmail account. Thankfully Safari allowed me to do that. Went back into the iPhone Settings menu to add the new Gmail account, just a few entries, and pressed the save button. As with Yahoo the iPhone goes away to validate the email account. Or not, which is what it did. Except this time Google actually gave me a meaningful error message - I needed to switch on Pop email in my Google account preferences. Thanks Google, some feedback I could understand.
So back into Safari to attend to the message, which is done via the options settings in Gmail. Just click on a couple of links - except I couldn't get the iPhone's Safari clicks to activate the final link on Gmail. Incidentally doing this highlighted how excruciatingly slow the iPhone can be, it was painful. So there I was, no response from the iPhone and no broadband from which I could talk to Gmail. Thankfully my son Tim works in London, for an American technology company and answered my call. He activated clients Pop settings in a few seconds. Bingo, we finally had email on the iPhone, and a happy client.
That's more or less the end of the story, except an update from the Apple store in Lakeside. I asked one of their people if he was aware of a problem configuring the iPhone to use Yahoo mail. He wasn't but did an internet search to find an answer. We found a post suggesting that the Yahoo setting should not be what the iPhone default and manual says, but should be something like "pop.mail.yahoo.com" amd "smtp.mail.yahoo.com" instead. This makes more sense, but its undocumented and leaves me with the feeling either that I'm the first person to try to connect to a Yahoo account from an iPhone, or that Apple haven't tested this here in the UK (scary).
Client is highly mobile, both by profession but also for the short term by home. Having just moved out of his old flat he's living temporarily in another in central London prior to relocating to a new home. So, no permanent internet connection and the iPhone seemed ideal. First problem - you can't register an iPhone unless you can connect via broadband but I'll skip that one.
So there I am, in flat, trying to connect to client's BT internet account. Several hours later, no connection. Decided to give up on that. Persuaded client that he could live with another email address and so went to Yahoo to get an identity he could use from the phone. Yahoo is one of the providers pre-configured into the iPhone, so what could go wrong? All you have to do is enter three variables, and wait while the setup is validated. Error message. Try again (and again and again) thinking I must have typed in the password wrong but everytime it refused to validate the account. Some hours after the start of a simple job (with client naturally losing confidence in me) we've achieved nothing.
Will this thing handle mail at all? I tried my own email account (Gmail), another pre-configured option on the iPhone - and had access to my mail in seconds. Went to Yahoo.com via Safari and could see client's account, so I was sure the account name, password etc were accurate. Decided to ditch Yahoo and get a Gmail account. Thankfully Safari allowed me to do that. Went back into the iPhone Settings menu to add the new Gmail account, just a few entries, and pressed the save button. As with Yahoo the iPhone goes away to validate the email account. Or not, which is what it did. Except this time Google actually gave me a meaningful error message - I needed to switch on Pop email in my Google account preferences. Thanks Google, some feedback I could understand.
So back into Safari to attend to the message, which is done via the options settings in Gmail. Just click on a couple of links - except I couldn't get the iPhone's Safari clicks to activate the final link on Gmail. Incidentally doing this highlighted how excruciatingly slow the iPhone can be, it was painful. So there I was, no response from the iPhone and no broadband from which I could talk to Gmail. Thankfully my son Tim works in London, for an American technology company and answered my call. He activated clients Pop settings in a few seconds. Bingo, we finally had email on the iPhone, and a happy client.
That's more or less the end of the story, except an update from the Apple store in Lakeside. I asked one of their people if he was aware of a problem configuring the iPhone to use Yahoo mail. He wasn't but did an internet search to find an answer. We found a post suggesting that the Yahoo setting should not be what the iPhone default and manual says, but should be something like "pop.mail.yahoo.com" amd "smtp.mail.yahoo.com" instead. This makes more sense, but its undocumented and leaves me with the feeling either that I'm the first person to try to connect to a Yahoo account from an iPhone, or that Apple haven't tested this here in the UK (scary).
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